Hybrids recoup higher cost in less time

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Hybrids recoup higher cost in less time Monday, May 12, 2008
USA Today -- Rising fuel prices and competition among a proliferation of gasoline-electric hybrids have sliced the payback period for hybrids to two or three years in some cases, instead of five years or more that made hybrids harder to justify at lower fuel prices. At the same time, increasing interest in hybrids is driving their prices up and eroding their fuel cost-saving benefits. An analysis for USA TODAY by auto-price consultant Edmunds.com shows that the difference between a Toyota (TM) Camry hybrid and a similarly equipped gasoline Camry was $889 Friday, up from $850 a week ago. Assuming 15,000 miles a year, Edmunds figures just 1.7 years for the Camry hybrid's fuel savings to offset the car's higher price — slightly longer than 1.6 years when the price difference was less a week earlier.
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JT Moderator	Message Posted: 5/12/2008 10:42:25 AM	Ignore JT Report Abuse
	Monday, May 12, 2008 USA Today -- Rising fuel prices and competition among a proliferation of gasoline-electric hybrids have sliced the payback period for hybrids to two or three years in some cases, instead of five years or more that made hybrids harder to justify at lower fuel prices. At the same time, increasing interest in hybrids is driving their prices up and eroding their fuel cost-saving benefits. An analysis for USA TODAY by auto-price consultant Edmunds.com shows that the difference between a Toyota (TM) Camry hybrid and a similarly equipped gasoline Camry was $889 Friday, up from $850 a week ago. Assuming 15,000 miles a year, Edmunds figures just 1.7 years for the Camry hybrid's fuel savings to offset the car's higher price — slightly longer than 1.6 years when the price difference was less a week earlier. Visit USA Today for full article

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dinah8270 Rookie Author Lansing Posts:45 Points:86,510 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 7:11:01 PM	Ignore dinah8270 Report Abuse
	Yes, like "PenDoctr" said---everyone should know that the Honda Hybrids & Toyota too I'm sure, warranty their batteries for EIGHT YEARS/140,000 miles! And they're really designed to last longer. Love my Civic Hybrid---I get gas TWO TIMES/MONTH---30 something, yesterday $39 with gas at 3.99---and I put on a lot of miles, too, averaging close to 1000 miles a month! ANOTHER thing people should remember, is that the both the Prius & especially the Civic---have lots of extra safety features built into them that you're not going to get with an older car or even with a newer "cheaper-made" car! SO YOU SHOULD BE PAYING A BIT MORE FOR MUCH MORE SAFETY BEING BUILT IN---that's important to some people (it would be to EVERYone if they or someone close to them suffered serious injury due to a car not being as safe as it could have been). But yes, we can't all afford the car of our choice. But if you look, I believe you can find them used as well. I would rather pay more in a payment, with the POSSIBILITY of getting some of it back when selling, than paying HUNDREDS in gas every month with NO possibility of getting any of that back!
PenDoctrJD Champion Author Orange County Posts:2,798 Points:1,259,240 Joined:Aug 2001	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 11:01:34 AM	Ignore PenDoctrJD Report Abuse
	Batteries? Mine has a 140,000 mile/8 yr. battery warranty. What's the issue? Repairs? Non-existent on my Honda.
ramshot412 Champion Author Riverside Posts:11,053 Points:1,109,825 Joined:Apr 2004	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 10:27:04 AM	Ignore ramshot412 Report Abuse
	Let'em whine and complain about "the costs of the repairs, batteries, etc." It's a different technology and they're stuck on their dinosaurs and will make-up reasons not to buy something new.
ramshot412 Champion Author Riverside Posts:11,053 Points:1,109,825 Joined:Apr 2004	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 10:14:04 AM	Ignore ramshot412 Report Abuse
	My Honda Civic gets almost 37 mpg. The Camry Hybrid info says 33mpg highway. I think I'll keep the Civic.........
zrcat Veteran Author Twin Cities Posts:378 Points:250,590 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 10:10:04 AM	Ignore zrcat Report Abuse
	Had a '88 Mazada 323, got 32 mpg on the freeway. Was not a hybbrid, what gives?
pgerassi Champion Author Wisconsin Posts:1,987 Points:429,190 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 10:02:37 AM	Ignore pgerassi Report Abuse
	Buying 4 years used is almost always cheaper as most of the depreciation has already occurred. That trumps any hybrid or new car better MPG even with the used compact car price rise or lower fall off.
pgerassi Champion Author Wisconsin Posts:1,987 Points:429,190 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:59:34 AM	Ignore pgerassi Report Abuse
	Buying 4 years used is almost always cheaper as most of the depreciation has already occurred. That trumps any hybrid or new car better MPG even with the compact car price rise or lower fall off.
BMWer Sophomore Author Calgary Posts:187 Points:347,510 Joined:Dec 2003	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:59:02 AM	Ignore BMWer Report Abuse
	I'd consider one
mahenv7 All-Star Author Toronto Posts:600 Points:123,245 Joined:Oct 2004	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:58:04 AM	Ignore mahenv7 Report Abuse
	realiable
ursidae3 Veteran Author Orlando Posts:431 Points:280,035 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:57:55 AM	Ignore ursidae3 Report Abuse
	what ya save in fuel , ya spend in maintance.
willisc1 All-Star Author Louisville Posts:651 Points:317,510 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:54:49 AM	Ignore willisc1 Report Abuse
	Inbreds are soo plentiful; u cant give one away! tomok said "OK - higher fuel prices - the faster the purchase payback. And, to buy an inbred you have to pay higher than normal purchase price. " [Edited by: willisc1 at 5/13/2008 10:55:05 AM EST]
DST43 Champion Author Oklahoma Posts:1,610 Points:284,850 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:54:24 AM	Ignore DST43 Report Abuse
	ok
GPCPilot Sophomore Author Orange County Posts:124 Points:43,305 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:50:54 AM	Ignore GPCPilot Report Abuse
	McNasties, The batteries in hybrids from Toyota, Ford and Honda at least, are designed to last the life of the vehicle. San Francisco and New York have added hybrids to their fleets and have not had to replace batteries in any cabs yet. The warranties for these cars' batteries are anywhere from 8 to 10 years and in California, up to 150K miles. The taxi fleets and others are showing hybrids to be MORE reliable than their gasoline-only counterparts. Honda and Toyota who've been selling hybrids since 1998 and 1997 respectively have had to replace one battery under warranty to date. All that said, hybrids are NOT for everyone. If you have a mixed city/hwy or city-only commute they are a good choice. If you're a person that does a lot of highway driving, a better choice is a good reliable high highway mileage car.
Expert Rookie Author Pennsylvania Posts:24 Points:238,180 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:50:47 AM	Ignore Expert Report Abuse
	I am not convinced that a hybrid is for me, and I doubt their longevity. So, I went the scooter route. I get 60+ mpg, and have fun on the commute. Of course I still drive my big vehicle on bad weather days, but on the whole, I am spending much less for fuel, and will keep my big vehicle a lot longer because of it. (I still have to tow my camper every now and then)
McNasties Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:3,830 Points:733,825 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:46:47 AM	Ignore McNasties Report Abuse
	Writer of story is obviously blind to the cost of repair.
GPCPilot Sophomore Author Orange County Posts:124 Points:43,305 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:42:19 AM	Ignore GPCPilot Report Abuse
	Hybid costs are pretty stable here in SoCal. Granted there are a lot more of them here. The Ford Escape can be bought for window sticker (or even less). I got mine for $300 over dealer invoice, because the dealer here had several in stock. In fact, a quick check this morning shows all the area Ford dealers have at least 3 in stock and the big one in Irvine has seven.
eaglev Veteran Author Oklahoma City Posts:457 Points:229,065 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:40:03 AM	Ignore eaglev Report Abuse
	wonder why they went up last week. Maybe they are trying to make more on them since the demand is going up
Lizzylou Champion Author Stockton Posts:1,002 Points:780,945 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:39:17 AM	Ignore Lizzylou Report Abuse
	AGREE--who is buying a new car now anyway???
GPCPilot Sophomore Author Orange County Posts:124 Points:43,305 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:37:21 AM	Ignore GPCPilot Report Abuse
	CV- hybrid batteries don't have acid in them, they are dry-cells. If you cut one open, they don't leak, unlike the lead-acid battery of a standard car. Someone else mention that they have to be "re powered" every 5 years. Again, wrong. The batteries in hybrids from Toyota, Ford and Honda at least, are designed to last the life of the vehicle. San Francisco and New York have added hybridst to their fleets and have not had to replace batteries in any cabs yet. The warranties for these cars' batteries are anywhere from 8 to 10 years and in California, up to 150K miles. The taxi fleets and others are showing hybrids to be MORE reliable than their gasoline-only counterparts. Honda and Toyota who've been selling hybrids since 1998 and 1997 respectively have had to replace one battery under warranty to date. All that said, hybrids are NOT for everyone. If you have a mixed city/hwy or city-only commute they are a good choice. If you're a person that does a lot of highway driving, a better choice is a good reliable high highway mileage car.
don985 Champion Author Denver Posts:1,140 Points:596,590 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:35:50 AM	Ignore don985 Report Abuse
	Fuel cells or maybe natural gas might be the answer?
kengrubb Sophomore Author Seattle Posts:196 Points:26,385 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:35:49 AM	Ignore kengrubb Report Abuse
	Dust to Dust has been thoroughly discredited.
kengrubb Sophomore Author Seattle Posts:196 Points:26,385 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:34:31 AM	Ignore kengrubb Report Abuse
	While battery concerns seem like an issue, there are RAV4 EV owners with over 100K miles.
alitin Rookie Author Chicago Posts:22 Points:76,640 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:32:05 AM	Ignore alitin Report Abuse
	Forget the hybrids, Most people can use a plug in hybrid fueled by nuclear powered electricity.
kaaato Rookie Author Boston Posts:52 Points:58,965 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:31:56 AM	Ignore kaaato Report Abuse
	So let me get this straight - you buy a hybrid to save gas costs (takes 3 to 5 years if you drive 15,000 a year or less) but the cost of the car continues to rise - sound familiar (gas prices???).
mvosevich All-Star Author St. Louis Posts:716 Points:153,150 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:31:13 AM	Ignore mvosevich Report Abuse
	The first time you have to replace those batteries you also eat up all those savings.
Gas_Buzzer Champion Author South Carolina Posts:5,786 Points:987,740 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:30:52 AM	Ignore Gas_Buzzer Report Abuse
	Certainly with the escalating price of oil.
lleddirj All-Star Author Michigan Posts:615 Points:521,050 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:29:39 AM	Ignore lleddirj Report Abuse
	Lifetime cost per mile for a hybrid is more than for a Hummer H3 (check the Dust-to-dust report.)
ariccougar Rookie Author Utah Posts:86 Points:9,345 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:29:10 AM	Ignore ariccougar Report Abuse
	I'm not sold on hybrids yet. I dont think the technology has gotten to the place which makes sense to buy. There isn't enough savings, its just not worth it for what you get. The worst thing in hybrids is no trunk area. Taking a major hit in the standard of living does not equal a good deal to save a few cents in gas.
kanmandoo All-Star Author Detroit Posts:733 Points:796,490 Joined:Jun 2005	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:28:49 AM	Ignore kanmandoo Report Abuse
	They find a better way, and then they charge more.
spunky4443 All-Star Author Washington Posts:554 Points:338,175 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:28:23 AM	Ignore spunky4443 Report Abuse
	It's never mentioned what the Cost of replacing the Batteries is going to cost????
NavyEOD Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:1,361 Points:312,730 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:27:37 AM	Ignore NavyEOD Report Abuse
	Its always something.
Brockvillian Veteran Author Ontario Posts:272 Points:244,370 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:23:31 AM	Ignore Brockvillian Report Abuse
	Diesel Hybrids, that something I would like to see. :D
laddyboy62 All-Star Author Riverside Posts:980 Points:875,635 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:21:10 AM	Ignore laddyboy62 Report Abuse
	who's buying any cars anyway....all about food on the table
OKRifle All-Star Author Oklahoma City Posts:588 Points:131,875 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:21:02 AM	Ignore OKRifle Report Abuse
	Now we have a new spin on the initial cost of a hybrid! Now who's gouging!
1warddune Rookie Author Utah Posts:51 Points:75,135 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:16:37 AM	Ignore 1warddune Report Abuse
	Spend more, Save more.
Rajah Champion Author Illinois Posts:1,845 Points:807,200 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:14:11 AM	Ignore Rajah Report Abuse
	We drive a 10 year old car we bought used that gets in the mid 20s as far as mileage. It's paid for so what we save in a car payment, way more than covers the difference in gas costs.
rod1965 Veteran Author Portland Posts:273 Points:27,890 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:13:39 AM	Ignore rod1965 Report Abuse
	The cost of the hybrids would go down if the car companies would think about how lowering the price would be in their favor.
KIKAYA Rookie Author Texas Posts:22 Points:31,800 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:12:01 AM	Ignore KIKAYA Report Abuse
	I have been driving a 2008 Honda Fit and driving about 90 miles a day to work and back. At first, I was driving the speed limit (70-74 MPH)ok maybe a little over the speed limit. I was getting an average of about 32-34 MPG. not too bad. Since prices here in the Abilene area are approaching 3.70 per gallon I have bit the bullet and slowed down to 55 MPH. Believe me at first it seems really slow and you have to put up with cars speeding by you like your sitting still, but after awhile you get used to it and it only adds about 10 to 15 min to the trip (so I leave a little earlier). I am now getting close to 40MPG and its a good feeling to go over 300 miles and only have to put a little over 7 or 8 gallons in the tank. I have to say though, during my morning drive almost no one seems to be driving slower. Just last Thursday I saw one of my friends at the gas station he was filling up his small Oldsmobile he showed me his ticket almost $70 to fill I showed him mine $32 He asked if my car was a hybrid. It made me smile. Now he is slowing down too.
Chazzer Champion Author Nevada Posts:7,483 Points:1,612,410 Joined:May 2002	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:10:22 AM	Ignore Chazzer Report Abuse
	The hybrid situation is a real catch 22. Damned if you do and damned if you don't!
FizedNH All-Star Author New Hampshire Posts:768 Points:158,155 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:10:05 AM	Ignore FizedNH Report Abuse
	Bound to happen...
Mooseman1 Champion Author Manitoba Posts:1,436 Points:198,665 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:05:42 AM	Ignore Mooseman1 Report Abuse
	My friend owns a Toyota Prius Hybrid. He told me during the cold Manitoba winter months his gas consumption goes up substantially, which cuts into his savings on paying more for a hybrid car.
LukeIN All-Star Author Indianapolis Posts:869 Points:165,735 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:05:25 AM	Ignore LukeIN Report Abuse
	But what about repairs? costly?, how long does this battery last?
kengrubb Sophomore Author Seattle Posts:196 Points:26,385 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:04:15 AM	Ignore kengrubb Report Abuse
	AC-302 wrote: "When I did the math (spreadsheet) of buying a new Prius vs. keeping my already paid for V-8 SUV, the numbers didn't work out. If you include the cost of repowering the Prius every 5 years ... the technology is unproven as to it's durability and reliability over that period of time." Let me suggest reading up on Andrew Grant. He's the Vancouver, BC cabbie with pushing 500K miles on Prius taxis and no hybrid component failures. http://taxistorys.blogspot.com/2007/07/hybrid.html Priuses have been on the road, in Japan, since 1997. GM starts and ends product lines in less time than that without much testing.
EnderNY Champion Author Dallas Posts:1,507 Points:291,955 Joined:Jun 2005	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:02:40 AM	Ignore EnderNY Report Abuse
	It's intuitive, and of course, you need to do your homework to make sure you are making a good decision.
stoopsy All-Star Author Columbus Posts:861 Points:197,360 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 9:01:21 AM	Ignore stoopsy Report Abuse
	make even better then
kengrubb Sophomore Author Seattle Posts:196 Points:26,385 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 8:58:33 AM	Ignore kengrubb Report Abuse
	redzx2 wrote: "Most Hybrids will only save in fuel cost if you live and work in the city. Long distance travelers like myself have manage save by dropping my average speed by 5mph." As with all things, it depends. Full hybrids deliver most of their savings in city driving whereas mild hybrids give one a little relief on the highway. Still, everyone's situation is different. If one were commuting alone in a Hummer or Escalade, then methinks a Prius would make far more sense.
RochBear Champion Author Minnesota Posts:1,159 Points:399,950 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 8:55:57 AM	Ignore RochBear Report Abuse
	This is a typical 4th grade story problem. Which is cheaper to drive...? The problem is you have to go to 8th grade math to do more than one variable. Since you also need to add in the difference in insurance (maybe), car payment, miles driven, type of miles driven (hybreds get better in the city), maintanence (new batteries every 10 years - average), etc, etc, etc.... The Hybred is not for everyone, but at over $3.50 for gas ($4.25 for diesel) it becomes a better option for more and more people.
nddaveman Sophomore Author Albuquerque Posts:215 Points:50,825 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 8:54:04 AM	Ignore nddaveman Report Abuse
	Driving a hybrid also has to do with reducing your carbon footprint as well, not just extending the time between each fill up.
tomok Champion Author Portland Posts:7,200 Points:600,410 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 8:52:47 AM	Ignore tomok Report Abuse
	OK - higher fuel prices - the faster the purchase payback. And, to buy an inbred you have to pay higher than normal purchase price.
mplato All-Star Author Columbia Posts:783 Points:322,495 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: 5/13/2008 8:52:41 AM	Ignore mplato Report Abuse
	ha ha ha...another joke from Laughington

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