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PD Moderator	Message Posted: Oct 19, 2010 10:47:42 AM Ignore PD Report Abuse Finally it's been made public- Tesoro itself admitted in a slide presentation to investors that it keeps supply deliberately tight on the West Coast to support higher prices and to keep profits at the company healthy. In a press release, Consumer Watchdog hounds Tesoro and Valero, owners of several West Coast refineries that process crude oil into gasoline, for keeping supplies deliberately tight to keep pressure on prices. You'll know if you're a frequent reader of the blog that I've followed the lower utilization rates of refiners on the West Coast, commenting throughout the summer that refineries on the West Coast have commonly had the lowest production rates out of any region in the nation. This summer... Visit GasBuddy Blog for full article

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2010 10:47:42 AM

Ignore PD Report Abuse

Finally it's been made public- Tesoro itself admitted in a slide presentation to investors that it keeps supply deliberately tight on the West Coast to support higher prices and to keep profits at the company healthy.

In a press release, Consumer Watchdog hounds Tesoro and Valero, owners of several West Coast refineries that process crude oil into gasoline, for keeping supplies deliberately tight to keep pressure on prices.

You'll know if you're a frequent reader of the blog that I've followed the lower utilization rates of refiners on the West Coast, commenting throughout the summer that refineries on the West Coast have commonly had the lowest production rates out of any region in the nation.

This summer...

Visit GasBuddy Blog for full article

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wxman08 Champion Author Vermont Posts:1,917 Points:401,470 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Oct 22, 2010 10:23:04 PM Ignore wxman08 Report Abuse "It's not price fixing if they make their decisions independently." LOL...keep your head firmly in the sand there "Sneakers55". "I've noted that there are no fewer than seven players in the local fuel market" Now ask those retailers where they are actually getting their gasoline from. Hint: Just because a gas station is labeled as "Exxon", "Mobil", "Chevron", "Texaco", etc. doesn't mean that the gasoline that you are buying came from those companies originally. "A larger corporation can be more efficient and pass the savings along to the customer. An example is the large store from Arkansas that isn't Dillard's." LMAO! Here here for more monopolies & Wal-Marts! What a complete & total joke!! "The last time I looked, the refining business wasn't a public utility." And that is relevant how?? Oh yea, it isn't, but nice try anyways...ugh... "We haven't built a new refinery, but we've sure expanded the old ones" ...and, as a result, we've seen gasoline prices fall dramatically because of that...ummmmmm...not... "They'd more likely increase health insurance copayments and deductibles and blame it on Obamacare." LOL...what in the heck are you even talking about "Sneakers55"?? Do YOU even know??
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:51,322 Points:2,144,900 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Oct 22, 2010 2:16:01 PM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse wxman08 quoted, then wrote: >>"Why should they be fined for running a business correctly?" >Because they are gaming the system, period. The last time I looked, the refining business wasn't a public utility. >>"If their profits get higher than normal, someone else will start building additional refining capacity." >Really?? When was the last time that we built a new oil refinery in the USA again? We haven't built a new refinery, but we've sure expanded the old ones. >>"If someone fined the business you worked for they would lay people off." >Not necessarily. They'd more likely increase health insurance copayments and deductibles and blame it on Obamacare.
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:51,322 Points:2,144,900 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Oct 22, 2010 11:33:41 AM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse dcjauburn wrote: >Maybe the prices they charge should be controlled by the PUC >just as the PUC controls utility prices. And then people just complain about the PUC set rates. If you've been doing oil refining, having a guaranteed profit and the ability to build the refineries required to meet worst case demand would be a field day. Utilities are even more of a widows' and orphans' stock than oil.
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:51,322 Points:2,144,900 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Oct 22, 2010 11:20:18 AM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse DavisSta wrote: >Interesting. Valero and Tesoro are the two main financial backers of >California Proposition 23 on the November ballot. The official description >of Proposition 23 is "Suspends Implementation of Air Pollution Control >Law (AB 32) Requiring Major Sources of Emissions to Report and >Reduce Greenhouse Gas Emissions that Cause Global Warming >Until Unemployment Drops to 5.5 Percent or Less for Full Year." With Intel going off to put their next fab in Oregon, and Apple moving a lot of functions to Texas, and HP saying no new facilities in California, and NUMMI having both GM and Toyota pulling out (to move truck production to Texas, where they sell most of the trucks there anyway; Corolla production moved to Canada, making the car workers eligible for Trade Adjustment Assistance payments)... Is it possible for California to get unemployment that low?
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:51,322 Points:2,144,900 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Oct 22, 2010 11:04:52 AM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse wxman08 quoted the resident GasBuddy sage, then responded: >>"So we're ready to go to a Socialist command economy?" >How is price fixing NOT a crime in our current, mixed >economy "Sneakers55"?? It's not price fixing if they make their decisions independently. >>"So we need more oil companies?" >Ummmm, the more companies that there are, the less likely >collusion between them will fix prices. I've noted that there are no fewer than seven players in the local fuel market, and that is when you count the companies with more than one retail brand (Exxon and Mobil; Chevron and Texaco; Conoco and Phillips 66) as being a single brand each. >Having a system of ever larger & larger corporations is not >generally a good trend for all. A larger corporation can be more efficient and pass the savings along to the customer. An example is the large store from Arkansas that isn't Dillard's.
wxman08 Champion Author Vermont Posts:1,917 Points:401,470 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Oct 22, 2010 6:16:53 AM Ignore wxman08 Report Abuse "So we're ready to go to a Socialist command economy?" How is price fixing NOT a crime in our current, mixed economy "Sneakers55"?? "So we need more oil companies?" Ummmm, the more companies that there are, the less likely collusion between them will fix prices. Having a system of ever larger & larger corporations is not generally a good trend for all. ----------------------------------- "buy shares in TSO if you want to take part in the profits." Ummmmm, TSO stck has plunged a full point since this story came out "PopeClaas2nd"...duhhh...
tomok Champion Author Portland Posts:33,054 Points:2,347,460 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Oct 21, 2010 10:52:30 AM Ignore tomok Report Abuse What some companies will do for a healthy profit.
Blue48 Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,315 Points:1,639,895 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 11:17:52 PM Ignore Blue48 Report Abuse BUSTED!
DavisSta All-Star Author San Francisco Posts:609 Points:2,497,970 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 10:35:00 PM Ignore DavisSta Report Abuse Interesting. Valero and Tesoro are the two main financial backers of California Proposition 23 on the November ballot. The official description of Proposition 23 is "Suspends Implementation of Air Pollution Control Law (AB 32) Requiring Major Sources of Emissions to Report and Reduce Greenhouse Gas Emissions that Cause Global Warming Until Unemployment Drops to 5.5 Percent or Less for Full Year."
torn8owx Champion Author Philadelphia Posts:2,313 Points:577,515 Joined:Feb 2010	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 7:44:27 PM Ignore torn8owx Report Abuse Supply-Demand at work. Legal though?
nervous Sophomore Author Ventura Posts:221 Points:4,545 Joined:Oct 2010	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 10:28:51 AM Ignore nervous Report Abuse price gouging not used anymore? even with a economic disaster going on presently. not a crime to inflate (dictate) prices in a manmade disaster?
PopeClaas2nd Rookie Author Dayton Posts:40 Points:451,550 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 7:57:03 AM Ignore PopeClaas2nd Report Abuse Wow. An epiphany! Maybe we should all go yell at our local farmers for storing grain, waiting for the prices to improve, and manipulating the prices for their benefit. Don't lament, buy shares in TSO if you want to take part in the profits. Free market capitalism!
remay Champion Author Houston Posts:6,973 Points:2,118,590 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 7:45:23 AM Ignore remay Report Abuse Price manipulation at it's best...
Grizdad Champion Author San Bernardino Posts:5,535 Points:784,850 Joined:Oct 2010	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 6:05:06 AM Ignore Grizdad Report Abuse Can the Terminator Governor take action?
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:51,322 Points:2,144,900 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 5:19:35 AM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse jadeusa wrote: >Sherman Anti-Trust Act - use the law to punish the "wrong-doers". So we need more oil companies? I don't think so.
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:51,322 Points:2,144,900 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 5:17:23 AM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse Bubba44612 wrote: >They need to be penalized for this. >Screwing the public is not a good thing. >The state needs to fine them for economic terrorism. So we're ready to go to a Socialist command economy?
wxman08 Champion Author Vermont Posts:1,917 Points:401,470 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 3:45:14 AM Ignore wxman08 Report Abuse "Why should they be fined for running a business correctly?" Because they are gaming the system, period. "If their profits get higher than normal, someone else will start building additional refining capacity." Really?? When was the last time that we built a new oil refinery in the USA again? "If someone fined the business you worked for they would lay people off." Not necessarily. "The real problem is the government manipulating the cost of things through bank and mortgage regulation, determining interest rates, and printing unsecured money." Baloney...you're just trying to dodge the issue here "comprof". ------------------------ "If Washington (EPA, Obama administration, etc.) would allow refiners to build additional capacity then there would be opportunities for other suppliers to sell at lower costs in order to increase their market share." LOL...and if there was additional oil refining capacity, then prices would fall because of increased supply, which would cut into oil company profits...and we can't have that, can we "Saturn93"?? Sheesh... ------------------- "That darn George Bush and his oil buddies, Oh that's right he is no longer president, that darn obama and his bunch of thugs." LOL...sure, sure...like Obama is a "friend" to the oil industry like GWB & his cronies were in the back pocket of the oil industry. Please "RETIREDLOCO"...give us all a break!
wxman08 Champion Author Vermont Posts:1,917 Points:401,470 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 2:25:22 AM Ignore wxman08 Report Abuse Is anyone surprised at this?? I hope not!
OnTheWater Champion Author Orange County Posts:2,123 Points:623,130 Joined:Nov 2009	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 1:47:52 AM Ignore OnTheWater Report Abuse Why am I not surprised?? What A'holes to do something like this! They continue to profit as we continue to go broke because of the high cost of gas. And with the high cost of gas comes higer food prices at the grocery store as well I noticed last night that milk prices shot up ten cents. So thanks a lot Tesoro & Valero.
scrounger Champion Author Vancouver Posts:9,778 Points:3,045,180 Joined:Mar 2003	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 1:46:15 AM Ignore scrounger Report Abuse no suprise there
takethe_point Champion Author Omaha Posts:1,961 Points:129,040 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 1:41:03 AM Ignore takethe_point Report Abuse Its bushs fault.
jimbeaux53 Champion Author Kansas City Posts:5,089 Points:968,485 Joined:Aug 2010	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 1:40:33 AM Ignore jimbeaux53 Report Abuse Officials who should be going after the energy companies for their illegal practices are always conflicted because they know who funds their campaigns.
sch5v2 Veteran Author Colorado Posts:330 Points:921,950 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 1:39:15 AM Ignore sch5v2 Report Abuse Big surprise
takethe_point Champion Author Omaha Posts:1,961 Points:129,040 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 1:36:28 AM Ignore takethe_point Report Abuse And I will bet its happening all around the USA right now too. Gota keep the profits high to screw the American public.
Bubba44612 Champion Author Ohio Posts:7,401 Points:1,878,055 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 1:31:45 AM Ignore Bubba44612 Report Abuse They need to be penalized for this. Screwing the public is not a good thing. The state needs to fine them for economic terrorism.
hubcapLA Champion Author Louisiana Posts:3,905 Points:940,435 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 1:26:02 AM Ignore hubcapLA Report Abuse If we don't like it we can refine our own oil----right!
CDUBYA Champion Author Ohio Posts:10,517 Points:1,910,365 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 1:17:10 AM Ignore CDUBYA Report Abuse Bastards!!!!!!
Tenshot All-Star Author Quad Cities Posts:756 Points:1,777,345 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 1:06:47 AM Ignore Tenshot Report Abuse Surely your not suggesting dishonest business practices in the oil industry,Yes I am and dont call me Shirley
runout9 Champion Author New Jersey Posts:3,240 Points:978,145 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 1:01:57 AM Ignore runout9 Report Abuse It's not just Tesoro & Valero, I have believed for years that this practice has been going on all around the country.
applejoe Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:3,630 Points:766,420 Joined:May 2001	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 12:59:22 AM Ignore applejoe Report Abuse Can anyone say price fixing?????????
comprof Champion Author Houston Posts:6,870 Points:1,358,700 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 12:56:09 AM Ignore comprof Report Abuse Just what every business tries to do - meet but not exceed demand. Why should they be fined for running a business correctly? If their profits get higher than normal, someone else will start building additional refining capacity. Di not Dell cut its production last year with declining sales? If someone fined the business you worked for they would lay people off. I bet you would look at that differently. The real problem is the government manipulating the cost of things through bank and mortgage regulation, determining interest rates, and printing unsecured money.
jadeusa Champion Author Dallas Posts:9,349 Points:1,826,940 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 12:51:42 AM Ignore jadeusa Report Abuse Sherman Anti-Trust Act - use the law to punish the "wrong-doers".
vulcan96 Champion Author Ohio Posts:26,927 Points:3,105,545 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 12:50:23 AM Ignore vulcan96 Report Abuse a 500 million fine sounds about right, more later if they do it again...
rwm1 Champion Author Iowa Posts:2,306 Points:1,547,115 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 12:50:21 AM Ignore rwm1 Report Abuse So why don't they fine them, arrest them. Isn't that sort of illegal? Oh wiat this world is run by Wall Street and spineless politicians. Never mind go ahead and milk the little guy.
bobdec Champion Author Miami Posts:8,969 Points:1,771,545 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 12:46:19 AM Ignore bobdec Report Abuse I am not surprised
jtfftj Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:2,181 Points:1,250,030 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 12:44:08 AM Ignore jtfftj Report Abuse Yes, I believe that California refineries keep production low to keep the price high. I lived in the Bay area for many years and the refinery maintenance schedule was a joke. There was never a time in my memory that that all of the five refineries in Northern California were on line at the same time. And fires just made things worse, not that they were deliberate or anything, but the off line repairs took lots of time to fix.
Jeannemarie Champion Author Las Vegas Posts:27,700 Points:2,035,640 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 12:42:20 AM Ignore Jeannemarie Report Abuse You might know it.... Never fails.
Long_gone Champion Author Chicago Posts:2,653 Points:461,445 Joined:Jan 2010	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 12:41:45 AM Ignore Long_gone Report Abuse They wouldn't do something like that. Would they?
furiousfowl Champion Author Riverside Posts:16,865 Points:2,751,130 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 12:41:21 AM Ignore furiousfowl Report Abuse were not special here, we dont want higher prices or a different blended gas. its forced on us and we always get stuck paying higher prices. im glad these bastards finally got caught being so greedy. now i hope prices drop, so sick of paying more
granitestater Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:8,836 Points:1,432,700 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 12:29:07 AM Ignore granitestater Report Abuse Has anybody had trouble finding gas when they needed it? Are any gas stations closed because they can't get gas due to a lack of supply? (Like the strikes in France.) Does anybody believe this paranoid nonsense??
Saturn93 Champion Author Salt Lake City Posts:7,292 Points:1,640,885 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 12:28:01 AM Ignore Saturn93 Report Abuse Refiners, and other manufacturers, can and will do this when manufacturing capacity is at or near the demand levels. If Washington (EPA, Obama administration, etc.) would allow refiners to build additional capacity then there would be opportunities for other suppliers to sell at lower costs in order to increase their market share.
CiVX Champion Author Oakland Posts:7,055 Points:1,359,610 Joined:Feb 2009	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 12:18:45 AM Ignore CiVX Report Abuse I am shocked!
cutter1330 Champion Author Oklahoma Posts:8,040 Points:1,695,090 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 12:13:52 AM Ignore cutter1330 Report Abuse More Californication!!
us4usa Champion Author Missouri Posts:5,998 Points:1,114,340 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 12:13:12 AM Ignore us4usa Report Abuse Thats it Cali. needs special gas, THEY ARE SO SPECIAL. THEY ARE SO SPECIAL THEY CAN PAY MORE...
Buddy2264 Champion Author Tampa Posts:11,664 Points:2,361,920 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 12:11:06 AM Ignore Buddy2264 Report Abuse How nice of them, NOT. Another reason to switch to alternative or public transportation and leave oil behind. Conservation keeps your money in your pocket.
SilliesRock Champion Author Detroit Posts:2,192 Points:1,164,695 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 12:09:39 AM Ignore SilliesRock Report Abuse As long as Californians are going to be Eco-Nazis, LET them pay more for gas than Americans. They can ride their electric scooters into the sunset on Sunset (Boulevard).
roadrunnerMO Champion Author Kansas Posts:8,416 Points:1,701,415 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 12:09:15 AM Ignore roadrunnerMO Report Abuse Since gas is special in CA, they can keep supply low easily.
LoneGuy Champion Author Lansing Posts:8,485 Points:2,318,970 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Oct 19, 2010 11:56:11 PM Ignore LoneGuy Report Abuse On the West Coast the refiners have to make the special gas used only in California. Maybe that has something to do with it.
Z51Corvette Champion Author Austin Posts:8,490 Points:1,672,170 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Oct 19, 2010 11:56:01 PM Ignore Z51Corvette Report Abuse Not surprising... someone should fine them for such behavior!!!
RTBama1 Sophomore Author Montgomery Posts:101 Points:1,558,045 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Oct 19, 2010 11:45:04 PM Ignore RTBama1 Report Abuse Really?