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Author	Topic: EPA wary of how to handle labeling E15	Post a Reply Back to Topics

PD Moderator	Message Posted: Oct 15, 2010 1:08:22 PM Ignore PD Report Abuse Since recently approving the use of up to 15% ethanol content in gasoline, the EPA now realizes how much difficulty and confusion bringing E15 to pumps could be. The agency is assembling rules for E15, a fuel only approved in use in vehicles 2007 and newer, setting the stage for possible mis-fueling and lawsuits. While the EPA is busy figuring out how to handle labeling pumps, the National Association for Convenience Stores (NACS) has begun work on solutions that would leave stations not liable for lawsuits because of mis-fueling. The Reformulated Fuels Association (RFA) has also signaled interest in lobbying the bill the NACS is working on. Of course- because with liability resting on stations, E15 would never make its way towards... Visit GasBuddy Blog for full article

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Message Posted: Oct 15, 2010 1:08:22 PM

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Since recently approving the use of up to 15% ethanol content in gasoline, the EPA now realizes how much difficulty and confusion bringing E15 to pumps could be. The agency is assembling rules for E15, a fuel only approved in use in vehicles 2007 and newer, setting the stage for possible mis-fueling and lawsuits.

While the EPA is busy figuring out how to handle labeling pumps, the National Association for Convenience Stores (NACS) has begun work on solutions that would leave stations not liable for lawsuits because of mis-fueling. The Reformulated Fuels Association (RFA) has also signaled interest in lobbying the bill the NACS is working on. Of course- because with liability resting on stations, E15 would never make its way towards...

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Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:51,257 Points:2,141,000 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Oct 23, 2010 9:36:21 PM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse Put the international symbol for a gas pump in black, then top it with the international symbol for "NOT" (circle with a bar) over the top.
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:51,257 Points:2,141,000 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Oct 22, 2010 11:55:18 AM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse Mr. Yuk might be a good idea.
OHMS Champion Author Orange County Posts:13,701 Points:1,688,855 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2010 1:54:53 PM Ignore OHMS Report Abuse Ethanol is a solvent; no topping off; those labels could come as unglued as the EPA
joelimo Champion Author New York Posts:71,801 Points:2,386,125 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2010 9:04:40 AM Ignore joelimo Report Abuse honda0105,,,it's Far worse in colder climates than down south,,, cold starts with ANY Ethocrap makes the engine (any engine) run Terrible,,,
ktyson13 Champion Author Maryland Posts:1,541 Points:395,275 Joined:Aug 2010	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2010 6:09:59 AM Ignore ktyson13 Report Abuse Another huge waste of our TAX dollars. Ethanol costs more to produce than it provides in energy, a true lose, lose situation.
honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:18,590 Points:1,606,595 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Oct 18, 2010 5:30:43 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse 250Ford: that may be true for northern climates. In the South it's not good - after all, EtOH is volatile and we have LOTS of warmth to evaporate the stuff right out of your tank.
nc43bike Champion Author North Carolina Posts:12,475 Points:2,900,965 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Oct 17, 2010 3:19:26 PM Ignore nc43bike Report Abuse 250FORD Where do you live? I will ship you the ethanol I'm separating from MY fuel; you can have it all. ;-)
nc43bike Champion Author North Carolina Posts:12,475 Points:2,900,965 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Oct 17, 2010 3:17:34 PM Ignore nc43bike Report Abuse Why should the gov't be expected to think ahead about the consequences of the forced sale of E15, when all they are wanting are the pay-offs from the corn industry?
RoadManJimC Champion Author Chico Posts:1,231 Points:181,340 Joined:Aug 2010	Message Posted: Oct 17, 2010 9:31:39 AM Ignore RoadManJimC Report Abuse Just get 'RID OF E15' and don't worry about a STUPID LABEL?
remay Champion Author Houston Posts:6,953 Points:2,114,690 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 10:51:34 PM Ignore remay Report Abuse Oh, gee, let's have another cash for "non-e15" "clunkers" recall [Edited by: remay at 10/16/2010 11:52:04 PM EST]
250FORD Champion Author Minnesota Posts:8,332 Points:1,305,720 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 8:46:24 PM Ignore 250FORD Report Abuse I will use it in my older vehicles. I have used up to 24% with no issues. As a matter of fact I have seen the same mpg's with 24% as with 10% and 0%.
gs7101 Champion Author San Antonio Posts:5,508 Points:387,245 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 6:25:39 AM Ignore gs7101 Report Abuse This E15 will create a lot of headaches. I just hope people will read the gas pumps before filling their tanks.
ENORMS Champion Author Colorado Posts:3,020 Points:1,588,005 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 5:40:22 AM Ignore ENORMS Report Abuse EPA may be going away...then what?
NekoSJG Champion Author San Jose Posts:5,168 Points:974,600 Joined:Jun 2010	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 3:09:02 AM Ignore NekoSJG Report Abuse If only we had a choice at the pump then the public would decide.
10k Champion Author North Carolina Posts:21,226 Points:2,251,095 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 2:11:46 AM Ignore 10k Report Abuse i can tell the EPA how to label the engine killing E-15: label it as E0, with the drunks drinking the alcohol that was gonna be added to the good gas.. ethanol is another unnecessary government waste that should be eliminated NOW !!!..
Fitwit Champion Author Stockton Posts:6,382 Points:1,352,705 Joined:May 2009	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 2:09:52 AM Ignore Fitwit Report Abuse Don't use it and we won't have to worry about how to label it.
jdhelm Champion Author Iowa Posts:11,813 Points:1,195,965 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 2:03:59 AM Ignore jdhelm Report Abuse it prob won't happen here in our part of Iowa for some time.
1fulltank Champion Author Buffalo Posts:7,888 Points:1,541,385 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 1:49:09 AM Ignore 1fulltank Report Abuse Amazing that "they" are still forcing ethanol down the filler pipe of a public that clearly doesn't want it.
nurdco Champion Author Colorado Springs Posts:9,212 Points:1,691,485 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 1:35:18 AM Ignore nurdco Report Abuse Pumper BEWARE...LIABILITY
Grismer Champion Author Kitchener-Waterloo Posts:8,519 Points:1,721,120 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 1:35:07 AM Ignore Grismer Report Abuse The EPA is jumping through hoops to facilitate a gasoline dilution measure that is fundamentally flawed. Culpable deniability takes precedence environmental responsibility.
HA4CNN Champion Author Toronto Posts:5,604 Points:1,539,490 Joined:Dec 2006	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 1:25:13 AM Ignore HA4CNN Report Abuse Lets get rid of ethanol altogether it just is not beneficial.
kslgas Champion Author Calgary Posts:2,397 Points:1,599,160 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 1:18:29 AM Ignore kslgas Report Abuse not selling flex fuild out here
TIGERPAW46 Champion Author Florida Posts:7,114 Points:1,352,710 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 1:10:48 AM Ignore TIGERPAW46 Report Abuse Ethanol: (1) lowers gas mpg., {2) caused more pollution than any savings. (3) may damage some older vehicles, Marine motors & small engines. like yard equip;(5) 15% ethanol use will void most, even new, Auto warranties. Read your Manual.
ysmc Champion Author Providence Posts:10,545 Points:2,019,245 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 1:10:26 AM Ignore ysmc Report Abuse I cleaned stetescioe hoses with 70% isopropyl alcohol and soon all the rubber tubings going to the ear pieces were cracked, crumbling, and useless. Had to buy new ones. If the same thing happens in vehicles we re in big trouble. This is one thing that needs more testing before pit into practice.
speedys Champion Author Utah Posts:7,002 Points:2,555,960 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 1:09:34 AM Ignore speedys Report Abuse I am with you "Saturn93".
DellDude2 Champion Author Nashville Posts:9,391 Points:2,119,585 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 1:09:20 AM Ignore DellDude2 Report Abuse Good one, pyndasky!
jcurley Champion Author California Posts:7,881 Points:1,772,120 Joined:Dec 2007	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 1:01:39 AM Ignore jcurley Report Abuse You said it Saturn93. May I mention that a lot of those representatives from those midwest, corn-growing states are republican (soon to be tea partiers). And yet, by using ethanol, that money otherwise would have went to the middle east and provided more funding for who knows what.
Saturn93 Champion Author Salt Lake City Posts:7,292 Points:1,640,885 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 12:58:48 AM Ignore Saturn93 Report Abuse The only way to get rid of this ridiculous ethanol mess is to lobby your Congressman/woman. Unfortunately, a majority of states grow significant corn crops, so naturally those Congressmen are going to support farmers in their states by voting for ethanol bills. And the farm lobby is strong. Just another reason why we need a serious house cleaning this next election.
TIGERPAW46 Champion Author Florida Posts:7,114 Points:1,352,710 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 12:44:50 AM Ignore TIGERPAW46 Report Abuse Another Gov. mandate despite numerous studies showing Ethanol is not only wasteful but causing more pollution than what it saves. Mainly due to burning forest and loss of trees for conversion of C-monoxide to dioxide etc. plus it is harmful to Engine seals etc in older autos.
billy44bo Champion Author Mobile Posts:7,193 Points:1,487,965 Joined:Feb 2008	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 12:44:04 AM Ignore billy44bo Report Abuse CALL your congress man and tell him to grow a pair and stop this crap if he wants a job in January
comprof Champion Author Houston Posts:6,844 Points:1,353,825 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 12:37:43 AM Ignore comprof Report Abuse hubcapLA: I like your comment.
grouch311 Champion Author Peoria Posts:6,378 Points:1,570,505 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 12:32:53 AM Ignore grouch311 Report Abuse should have been figured out before now.
52MPG Champion Author Dayton Posts:7,247 Points:1,738,780 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 12:29:35 AM Ignore 52MPG Report Abuse More costly and unintended problems created by the government.
hubcapLA Champion Author Louisiana Posts:3,905 Points:940,435 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 12:15:42 AM Ignore hubcapLA Report Abuse I'll drive further to keep from using it.
vulcan96 Champion Author Ohio Posts:26,879 Points:3,100,750 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 12:14:08 AM Ignore vulcan96 Report Abuse EPA is now run by idiots and need to be eliminated.
Jarol Champion Author Iowa Posts:8,405 Points:1,590,215 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 12:09:29 AM Ignore Jarol Report Abuse What is the effect on older cars?
hybridaholic Champion Author Appleton Posts:8,350 Points:1,553,640 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 12:08:31 AM Ignore hybridaholic Report Abuse We will never use it unless they mandate pure gas be banned. (Which will probably happen in the next 5 years)
judgemobile Champion Author Ohio Posts:7,555 Points:2,442,210 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 12:08:17 AM Ignore judgemobile Report Abuse start a NEW Cash for Clunkers program in which the government buys all cars older than 2007 and gives every such owner a FREE 2007 or newer Government Motors (GM) car. When you talk of TRILLIONS, what's a few more billion added to the deficit ?? And this would not only achieve their energy aims, and even get some votes.
KMac24 Veteran Author Georgia Posts:389 Points:1,701,020 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Oct 16, 2010 12:04:17 AM Ignore KMac24 Report Abuse great maybe they can buy all the old cars a make everyone buy a 07 or newer
Buddy2264 Champion Author Tampa Posts:11,639 Points:2,357,045 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Oct 15, 2010 11:54:38 PM Ignore Buddy2264 Report Abuse What will it do to old engines? Conservation keeps your money in your pocket.
geepy All-Star Author Long Island Posts:779 Points:520,745 Joined:Aug 2009	Message Posted: Oct 15, 2010 11:47:53 PM Ignore geepy Report Abuse burn alcohol the gas companies will lose money.. who is behind it follow the money trail and who has what to lose
rxman1 Champion Author Toledo Posts:9,529 Points:1,858,970 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Oct 15, 2010 11:46:29 PM Ignore rxman1 Report Abuse They should be labelling all the pumps now. How are we supposed to know what product we are getting. They make the printing on drug packages smaller and smaller due to all that has to be on the label and they can not label a gas pump to tell us what percentage of ethanol is in the pump. Ridiculous.
pyndasky Champion Author Maryland Posts:9,985 Points:1,778,880 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Oct 15, 2010 11:41:41 PM Ignore pyndasky Report Abuse how about make the pumps in the shape of a giant ear of corn or a moonshine barrel...
heysailor Champion Author Pittsburgh Posts:9,572 Points:2,330,720 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Oct 15, 2010 11:37:59 PM Ignore heysailor Report Abuse Put a Mr. Yuck sticker on the pump.
swepson Champion Author Greensboro Posts:5,458 Points:1,549,425 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Oct 15, 2010 11:34:27 PM Ignore swepson Report Abuse I've got a great idea of what they can do with all their ethanol, but they won't let me say it here. But it will probably hurt.
TFzoom All-Star Author Chicago Posts:864 Points:919,185 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Oct 15, 2010 11:34:20 PM Ignore TFzoom Report Abuse Lucky jrsva, according to gasbuddy a few weeks ago 100% gas is very rare. I think the onus should be on the driver. Each of us should be aware of what we put in the tanks. Too many variations for the suppliers to separate. Many in this forum state they only purchase certain grades, confirming we have the ability to accept the responsibility.
Bleeder Champion Author Virginia Posts:8,038 Points:1,697,375 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Oct 15, 2010 11:34:09 PM Ignore Bleeder Report Abuse Let's just get rid of it and then we won't have to worry about labeling it.
unicornpmb Champion Author Buffalo Posts:8,476 Points:1,626,590 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Oct 15, 2010 11:33:38 PM Ignore unicornpmb Report Abuse Good time to be thinking about that.
Bubba44612 Champion Author Ohio Posts:7,381 Points:1,874,155 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Oct 15, 2010 11:32:44 PM Ignore Bubba44612 Report Abuse I say feed the corn to the cattle and leave fuel to hydrogen power.
jrsva Champion Author Virginia Posts:9,835 Points:1,610,075 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Oct 15, 2010 11:29:38 PM Ignore jrsva Report Abuse “Color the pumps green. Because thats [sic] the color of your money....” No, green is now used for diesel pumps. Someone earlier suggested purple but that’s the federal safety color for radiation hazard. Hmmm . . . maybe that’s a good idea; if people think it is radioactive they will stay away from it.